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Done Health % visible on opposing Temtem

Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
363
Hard disagree with this, knowing the HP amount my opponent has would make battles way more easy, in both PVE and PVP.
 

xukly

Rookie
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
56
I don't want to have to use a ruler to know if I did 49.5% or 50.5% to know if I can KO.
In my opinion this isn't absolutely right, but it has a point.
The moment we can do calcs the only stats we can get for sure are attack and special attack, we can more or less get the speed though. But hp, stamina, def and spdef are almost imposible to get.
If we know the % of life we are dealing we need 2 different attacks to hit and do a equation system. But if we can't know the % we don't only need to do a system, we are doing a system with approximation.
Even though I think that showing the % is still an artificial way to buff defense over attack, it's probably the best course of action since, the only way we can know the defenses as easily as the attacks would be to show the hp of the opponent. And I don't really think that fine. So, in order to have this a bit more balanced (and avoid people just using stickers or something like that in the screen to have the information) I think that showing the % of the oponent's hp is the best solution (and for consistency the % of sta too).
Moreover, not having that tool means that people with bad eyesight are bound yo play in a disadvantage (probably).
 

YaW

Game Director
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
367
I have mixed thoughts about this, specially considering that making an external tool to show the % is super easy and when that's done it is going to be widely accepted to use it.
 

TMTrainer

Game Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
1,469
I have mixed thoughts about this, specially considering that making an external tool to show the % is super easy and when that's done it is going to be widely accepted to use it.
As much as I agree with Kiza, if this is the outcome that you're concerned about then include the % tracker in the game and balance the game around it... or ban the use of the tool you're concerned about.

The first one seems more reasonable.

Just don't include flat HP values.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
28
I made a similar suggestion before. I think at the very least we need the health bar color code to change to yellow at 50%. Like you were saying, its too hard to tell if a move will 2 hit ko or not
 

mrguy888

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Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
90
Showing % of hp, as Yaw points out by mentioning how easily a third party application can show the info, is not showing information that we don't already see. All it is doing is showing that information in an easier to read way. Of course, showing raw hp values would be showing information we don't have, and is not something I would support.
 

Aisu

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Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
28
If 3rd party programs are going to be used to show health percentages anyways, then what's to stop them from just reading into the game and giving the raw HP value of the target? Not only that, this brings up the discussion of having 3rd party programs "assist" you in battles, which i'm really not an advocate for keeping legal competitively across the board.

As a question of being implemented directly into the game, I still vote no. They're misleading at higher raw HP values (even going to the tenth of a percent, 23.6% still has a small range of values), and are really only helpful for "precise" guesstimates and figuring out 2HKOs. 50% not having any visual representation is one of the only arguments I've really seen for wanting percentages, in which case I can agree with @ScarTheColossus - just make it have a color change. Otherwise, percentages is implementing too much information into the game.

TL;DR Percentages are a "noob trap."
 

YaW

Game Director
Staff member
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Oct 20, 2018
Messages
367
If 3rd party programs are going to be used to show health percentages anyways, then what's to stop them from just reading into the game and giving the raw HP value of the target?
That info is not on the client so it's impossible to read it by an external program. The HP can be read even just by checking the pixels on the health bar.
 

Lykun

Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
18
a % on hover would be nice, but looks tacky to just have it sitting there all the time.

I'd settle for HP bar changing at 25%, 50%, and 75%. No rounding the percentages with decimals when determining color.
 

Ambo

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Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
72
You could have a far more gradual color change (per single percentage), but at this point, it's just aesthetics. I think what people really want here, and this has been mentioned, is that the health bar changes from green to yellow (or whatever) at 50%. People really just care if they can get a 2HKO off or not.
 

xukly

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Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
56
You could have a far more gradual color change (per single percentage), but at this point, it's just aesthetics. I think what people really want here, and this has been mentioned, is that the health bar changes from green to yellow (or whatever) at 50%. People really just care if they can get a 2HKO off or not.
After yaw's response, I think that the main issue with that would be how many people are gonna use external tools to get a more detailed info. And I really think that even if they clearly signal the point where the life goes beyond 50% people is still gonna make and use them (let's be real, doing it is plainly easy). And even on tournaments (where probably you won't be able to use software tools) there are still a lot physical tools to use. For example sqared paper, measured pens... That will give you far more info, and they can't just ban everything that could be used for that. So if people is gonna do things lika that it's probably better to them to just show it (of at least that is what I understand for what yaw said).
 

Aeon

Apprentice
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
213
I agree the health bars should be colored coded to show the 50% (2hko) and 66.6% (3hko) thresholds. If someone wanted to know the exact percentages I'm sure they can make an overlay for that, so having a way to visually distinguish these two numbers in game will only put those who use addons or the like and those who don't on an even footing.
 

Ambo

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Nov 22, 2018
Messages
72
After yaw's response, I think that the main issue with that would be how many people are gonna use external tools to get a more detailed info. And I really think that even if they clearly signal the point where the life goes beyond 50% people is still gonna make and use them (let's be real, doing it is plainly easy). And even on tournaments (where probably you won't be able to use software tools) there are still a lot physical tools to use. For example sqared paper, measured pens... That will give you far more info, and they can't just ban everything that could be used for that. So if people is gonna do things lika that it's probably better to them to just show it (of at least that is what I understand for what yaw said).

I didn't think about that xuk. People will make them no matter what and that's true. So the question is do you control that by providing it yourself or do you just let people do it and I think on that note, I agree with @TMTrainer . If you want something done right, you do it yourself.
 

Eskwyre

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Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
32
If you're concerned about people using 3rd party programs and it isn't completely gamebreaking it's best to just add it in game. %ages are kind of trivial tbh.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
363
You could have a far more gradual color change (per single percentage), but at this point, it's just aesthetics. I think what people really want here, and this has been mentioned, is that the health bar changes from green to yellow (or whatever) at 50%. People really just care if they can get a 2HKO off or not.


I agree with the color change, I assumed that's how it would be eventually actually xD

Can't speak about 3rd party stuff though, I never thought to use it. If you need the exact percents to figure out how to defeat a Temtem, I question how you survived Pokemon. It's kinda common sense not to use a move that does 80 damage on a level 3 Temtem with only 1/2 it's HP left, no?
 

mrguy888

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Jun 30, 2019
Messages
90
As a colourblind person, I don't see adding more colour as information as being a suitable replacement. Colourblind modes are not really a solution either.
 

mrguy888

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Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
90
If clearly displayed hp% information is omitted, playing on PC will be a requirement to be as competitive as possible. This is because having a third party application that counts pixels on screen is much more possible on PC than the console cross play alternatives. It will also make having a higher resolution monitor a competitive advantage. If the health bar is made out of more pixels, you will get more accurate information than someone with fewer pixels on their monitor. I think that artificially limiting the competitive scene in this way is bad for the game.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
363
The only competitive games I know that show you the exact health of your enemy is card games. I can't think of any FPS, MOBA, TPS, etc game that requires you to see the what percent your health your opponent is.

As a colourblind person, I don't see adding more colour as information as being a suitable replacement. Colourblind modes are not really a solution either.

Eight percent of men, and .8 percent of women in the world are color blind. There's not much devs can do besides adding colorblind options, which I do hope they look into the future if possible.
 

Leukah

Apprentice
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
154
As a colourblind person, I don't see adding more colour as information as being a suitable replacement. Colourblind modes are not really a solution either.

What if there was a texture change? Solid to striped to stippled or something?
 

xukly

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Nov 25, 2018
Messages
56
The only competitive games I know that show you the exact health of your enemy is card games. I can't think of any FPS, MOBA, TPS, etc game that requires you to see the what percent your health your opponent is.

First, Temtem is way more similar to card games than to MOBAs or shooters. Second, LOL and overwatch show you the exact health of your opponents, overwatch shows you the health in squares of 25 hp each. LOL shows you the life bar of your opponent with marks, each one representing 100 hp. Compared to that showing the % is even less information.


What if there was a texture change? Solid to striped to stippled or something?

This wouldn't help with the current discussion. The changing on the bar when hitting certain milestones are almost useless unless those milestones are separated by a low %, like 5 or 10%. And even in that case, people would still use 3rd party software to get the exact %.
 

Yahlunna

Tamer
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
394
And even on tournaments (where probably you won't be able to use software tools) there are still a lot physical tools to use.

Keep in mind that most tournaments happen online (i can't really think about a Temtem physical tournament happening anytime soon) and the organisers don't have any way to check if those kinds of modifications are being used on an online game. So if some player is using it and gaining an advantage over the others, and there is any way for referees to check if tools of this sort are being used, players playing legally will have an disadvantage and modding will become popular and condoned for a certain amount of players.

Showing the flat current HP% is more fair for everyone, imo.
 

ManiCed7

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Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
5
As Xuqly said about LOL having marks for each 100 hp, temtem could have it for each 25% or 10% if possible.

I also thought about the colors changing, but it would be a problem for colorblind people. I do like how games like Smash handle it by making it change shade instead.
 
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