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Please disable the run function during radars

Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
82
With radars already being the most mind-numbingly boring endgame activity, it's absolutely insulting that the run button is still functional in radar fights. I play on controller, and I have broken at LEAST five radars due to a combination of my stick drifting onto the run button, being mentally checked out from the tedious repetition of the radar, and being distracted by something else (such as watching a youtube video on another screen).

There is ZERO logical reason to allow the player to run from radar fights, and the combination of the button functioning and radars being so boring and long (which is a topic for another day) is the perfect storm for accidental breakages.

This is a serious Quality of Life issue and it needs to be adressed.
 

sawdomise

Rookie
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
32
Damn you're gonna get a lot of flak for suggesting that the most mind-numbing activity in the game could be a bit more forgiving if you doze off at some point. HOW DARE THE GAME BE SLIGHTLY MORE CONVENIENT FOR SOME PEOPLE!?

You're incentivized to alt-tab and watch something while doing the radars with the abysmal spawn rates, of course not 100% of your attention is gonna be on Temtem. Definitely agree with you OP. There's no reason where someone would want to run from a radar encounter, so at least an "Are you sure you want to run from this radar encounter? It could break the radar" message would be nice.
 
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
82
I would like the entire premise of radars breaking at all to be removed. Why is it that our reward for beating the hardest PVE fights in the game is a 400-kill/capture grind for a SMALL CHANCE of a good prize? That's not too bad in itself, but then they make it where you can accidentally kill your own radar by making one small mistake in the middle of that HOURS-LONG process?

If they want to keep the concept of radars breaking in the game, then it's like you said, at the very least there should be a confirmation box before you flee. There are so many ways they can solve this issue, and they can choose any one of them to completely fix it or otherwise improve radars. Here's a few I can think of:

Remove the first two tiers of the radar and make it 300 encounters instead
Make the spawn rates uniform for all Tems, there's no legitimate reason to make 5% radars take 17+ hours to do because you have to wait more than a minute between spawns
Make it impossible to run from radar fights, make them just like tamer battles
Make a dialogue box that prevents accidental fleeing
Make a new tier for the final 50 encounters that grants random egg moves (lumas like Drakash are competitively worthless without Mud Shower, for example)

If we could get some or all of these things, radars would actually feel rewarding instead of notoriously being joked about as actual torture/pain/suffering. When you as a game developer have created an experience that is widely described like that, you have FAILED at your job to create a FUN experience.
 
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Cheware

Tamer
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
416
I think this complaint has been received enough time for Crema to know it's a problem to some/few players, which has been thoroughly discussed on the forums.

We should just wait to see if an incoming update changes that or not, which will likely be the sign they agreed, or disagreed on the premise, all we can do in the mean time is not creating another thread each time we misclick/mis-hit (?). :p
 
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
82
I think this complaint has been received enough time for Crema to know it's a problem to some/few players, which has been thoroughly discussed on the forums.

We should just wait to see if an incoming update changes that or not, which will likely be the sign they agreed, or disagreed on the premise, all we can do in the mean time is not creating another thread each time we misclick/mis-hit (?). :p
Not only am I not going to search through the forums to see if a grievance I have has been voiced before, it doesn't matter if it has. By making another thread, I'm adding to the stack of persistent feedback, which is more effective than just bumping an older thread. Sitting back and not adding your voice will never get the result you want. You have to make an effort to make your feedback known and push the developers to be better.
 

Cheware

Tamer
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
416
Not only am I not going to search through the forums to see if a grievance I have has been voiced before, it doesn't matter if it has. By making another thread, I'm adding to the stack of persistent feedback, which is more effective than just bumping an older thread. Sitting back and not adding your voice will never get the result you want. You have to make an effort to make your feedback known and push the developers to be better.
I slightly disagree on the process though. I think feedback is a lot easier to manage for devs if they have one 500-post topic where everyone gives their point of view, instead of having 500 one-post threads where everyone voices their own rage after killing a radar.

But I understand you point of view !
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
435
I think feedback is a lot easier to manage for devs if they have one 500-post topic where everyone gives their point of view, instead of having 500 one-post threads where everyone voices their own rage after killing a radar.
Crema has made it clear at this point that they aren't going to bend to complaints about the difficulty™ of the game if they want to keep it as it is.

The complaints about radars breaking due to accidentally running away from not paying attention while grinding through encounters seems to most often come from forum accounts made within a day of the thread being made. This comes across as noobs™ whining about their own mistakes and why the classic response to this particular topic is treating it as whining.

With radars already being the most mind-numbingly boring endgame activity
This is the main source of the problem. If radars weren't so boring and repetitive you wouldn't have to watch television instead of paying attention to the game. Even if the usual proposed solution of disabling fleeing during radar encounters were implemented, it'd still be boring and repetitive for hours and it'd be left that way for a while to see how the playerbase as a whole reacts to the change.

I've been doing radars lately. They're very boring. After a hundred or so encounters in one sitting I turn the game off and look up to the sky, wondering if it's going to be worth it. I usually play music while grinding encounters rather than the tradition of watching a show to keep my eyes and hands tending the game while the little hamster wheel in my head is kept adequately occupied.
 

Moonie

Tamer
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
313
I'm surprised that Silber hasn't commented on anything here yet.

I am a casual Temtem player so I almost never use the radars, but I can imagine the suffering it must be to have more than 500 encounters and when I finally find a Luma I end up accidentally clicking run for some reason and seeing hours of gameplay thrown away.
 

Silber

Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,372
@Silber we need your expertise
Oh, wow, look, another one of these.

<opinion>

If you can't manage to avoid pressing a button, you shouldn't get the rewards either. Seriously, the bar is so low you would need to start digging trenches to bury it any lower. Yet here we are. People still manage to somehow trip on the bar because they're dragging their feet and it isn't buried 6 feet under the ground and then ask that it literally be made impossible for them to fail. Screw that.

</opinion>

EDIT: @Moonie You really couldn't wait 1 more minute to say that, huh? xD
 

Argurotoxus

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
137
So I'm big-time in favor of things like a pop-up warning before you use Temcard X or releasing a luma from a box. Things that could be just a mistake to make from a misclick while organizing your box or clicking "Temcard X" because it's at the top of your recently obtained items list.

But, for radars, the entire point of the mechanic is meant to be you're rewarded for paying attention through the radar with a significantly higher luma encounter chance.

This is a case where you failed the mechanic, not made a mistake. So you lose your reward.
 
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
82
Oh, wow, look, another one of these.

<opinion>

If you can't manage to avoid pressing a button, you shouldn't get the rewards either. Seriously, the bar is so low you would need to start digging trenches to bury it any lower. Yet here we are. People still manage to somehow trip on the bar because they're dragging their feet and it isn't buried 6 feet under the ground and then ask that it literally be made impossible for them to fail. Screw that.

</opinion>

EDIT: @Moonie You really couldn't wait 1 more minute to say that, huh? xD
You have my pity if your daily life is so boring that you're used to your brain being subjected to nonsense-amounts of tedium and the radar grind doesn't practically put you to sleep.
 

Pink G

Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
163
But, for radars, the entire point of the mechanic is meant to be you're rewarded for paying attention through the radar with a significantly higher luma encounter chance.

This is a case where you failed the mechanic, not made a mistake. So you lose your reward.
When 5% radars take a MINIMUM of 11 hours and those 11 hours have to be in the same week that is exhausting and are faulty by design if you are required to be attentive during all those hours consecutively. + The Reward is not guaranteed, considering it is just increased odds, no guarantee.

Who does breaking radars benefit? I guess the server where this forum is hosted cause the only thing breaking radars does is make people post here. It doesn't help anyone and it's the worst mechanic designed.
 

Argurotoxus

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
137
When 5% radars take a MINIMUM of 11 hours and those 11 hours have to be in the same week that is exhausting and are faulty by design if you are required to be attentive during all those hours consecutively. + The Reward is not guaranteed, considering it is just increased odds, no guarantee.

Who does breaking radars benefit? I guess the server where this forum is hosted cause the only thing breaking radars does is make people post here. It doesn't help anyone and it's the worst mechanic designed.
I would say the fault with 5% radars is the time investment, not the mechanic.

I don't personally believe 5% radars should take any more time than 100% radars. The rarity in obtaining the radar (which I would also prefer to see done differently, via a shop or something) is enough imo. And then the mechanic would be yeah, "chain" 400 Temtem in a row without making a mistake over the course of an hour or two.

I flat out reject the argument of "who does it benefit" because this is a game, and not every mechanic has to be a benefit to the player. Who does losing pansuns when you black out benefit? Who benefits from not receiving any pansun reward for losing in PvP?

In a game I believe it's a reasonable expectation when a mechanic or "mini-game" is implemented that you should have to complete a task or clear a hurdle to receive the reward.

That's why I'm not in favor of a pop up warning for things like radars, but I am for things like releasing a valuable Temtem. Radars are a mini-game for you to beat, organizing your box is not.
 

soliloquy

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
81
I'm just going to continue responding to the pushback against this suggestion with this:

There is no skill involved in radars. There is no semblance of skill involved in radars. They are not engaging, they are not challenging. The only way one fails a radar is if they get distracted because they're finding engagement elsewhere. Blackmailing players into engaging with unfun, mindless mechanics with the threat of failure if they stop paying attention is fundamentally awful game design.

Insisting radars be failable isn't making players pay for them by requiring skill, it's making players pay for them by being miserable.
 

Cheware

Tamer
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
416
Who does breaking radars benefit? I guess the server where this forum is hosted cause the only thing breaking radars does is make people post here. It doesn't help anyone and it's the worst mechanic designed.
Yeah, I'm all in for a penalty for failing something, but this one is just... too harsh. Phazing away happens when all you have to do is waiting until something spawns, OHKO it and go back to round 1.

A less harsh penalty - such as having to pay 5k pansuns to someone to repair it or whatever - would be enough to solve this specific issue.

But definitely something has to be done for 5% radars. I didn't get any before the buff which boosted the spawn rates, but goddamnit that should have been a painful experience.
I'm really advocating for a removal of the "fail protection" of the first 50 encounters, which in turn would allow Crema to boost 5%s rate to the level of 100% if they want, which would make the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. But outright removing this "fail protection" would not work without a replacement of the punishment for failing a radar (as it would just increase the amount of forum posts from people who will destroy radars early :D).
 

Skar

Rookie
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
96
Band Aid solution:

Go to menu->settings->control->redefine controls-> now go to the bottom of the list, the last 2 options should be backpack and run, change the run shortcut to be the same as the backpack, this should make the backpack shortcut to be set to none, now change the backpack shortcut to the same as the run, this should make the run shortcut to be set to none.

There you go, you just disabled the run shortcut on your keyboard or controller.

Now, if you keep drifting to run, you have 2 options:
  1. Buy a new controller;
  2. Stop manually navigating through the options and start using shortcuts, it's faster anyway and there is 0 chance for you to hit run, because you just disabled the run shortcut.
Have fun and don't forget to put the shortcut back once you are done with your radar.
 
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Argurotoxus

Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Messages
137
Then there's a huge flaw with radar design because they are not a 'mini' game
I'm just going to continue responding to the pushback against this suggestion with this:

There is no skill involved in radars. There is no semblance of skill involved in radars. They are not engaging, they are not challenging. The only way one fails a radar is if they get distracted because they're finding engagement elsewhere. Blackmailing players into engaging with unfun, mindless mechanics with the threat of failure if they stop paying attention is fundamentally awful game design.

Insisting radars be failable isn't making players pay for them by requiring skill, it's making players pay for them by being miserable.
I'll agree with both of you that radars aren't a very engaging mini-game and that I'm not a fan of the design.

Soliloquy I think you're overexaggerating a tiny bit. I agree it's not a high degree of skill which makes it not particularly engaging, but reacting successfully multiple times in a row is a mechanic used in games other than Temtem that requires skill. It's a very boring version of that skill but, it's a skill.

For the record I'm not opposed to overworld lumas having a pop-up.

If radars were designed differently to where they could be turned on and off, other encounters didn't break them, or whatever. Just take away the "mini-game" of you have to successfully have 400 of the correct encounter in a row. Then I personally no longer have an issue with the radar also having a pop-up because there's not a way for it designed to fail.

But since it currently has a failure mode I don't think it makes sense to give a "Are you sure?" prompt. That feels like it's on the same level of getting an "Are you sure you wanna move your Queen there?" in chess.
 

soliloquy

Rookie
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Messages
81
Soliloquy I think you're overexaggerating a tiny bit. I agree it's not a high degree of skill which makes it not particularly engaging, but reacting successfully multiple times in a row is a mechanic used in games other than Temtem that requires skill. It's a very boring version of that skill but, it's a skill.
This isn't a quicktime event. There's no element of "can you react to this correctly", because the only thing "forcing" you to react rather than stop and think is the fact that you have to get through doing this four hundred times. Again, the "skill" here is exclusively your patience: you don't need to react at all unless you want to get this unfun grind over with as quickly as possible.
 

Canvas

Rookie
Joined
Oct 30, 2020
Messages
61
Just "lost" a radar cause i was waiting for spawns whilst working on my 1st screen after giving orders to attack,then noticed my tems weren't attacking.

2nd tem didn;t receive the input,so i quickly turned my cursor to the second screen and clicked once so that Temtem client would receive inputs,and it pleasantly clicked the run button.

Guess i'll prioritise running vs finishing off a 2% hp chromeon and lose the chain.

Towards the "just pay more attention comments"

Try working 11h shifts,then putting some extra overtime from home and wanting to at least get SOME progress on temtem's most mind numbing content at the same time and not missclicking.
 

Pink G

Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
163
2nd tem didn;t receive the input,so i quickly turned my cursor to the second screen and clicked once so that Temtem client would receive inputs,and it pleasantly clicked the run button.
Yup this is also a frustrating poor UI design. I had previously suggested to Add a Delay when Switching between keyboard/controller to mouse. These are just punishing us players for inability to design the game correctly and failure to listen to feedback for months.
 
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