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Regarding Balancing and Technique Variety

splaashed

Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
62
I just come back to Temtem after a few months and saw that Oceara had Aquatic Whirlwind removed.. I gotta say i really dont like the Way of Balancing right now where they remove Techniques because i really enjoy the Team-Building and being able to choose between different Techniques and have Variety in Match-Ups and Teams. I think almost every Tem is only good with that 1 specific set of Moves. I would rather see buffs ( new Techniques ) for other Tems than to remove a Technique from an OP one. Or just changing the Stats a bit so its not that OP anymore.

So in general i would just love to see that all Tems would get a little bit more variety in Techniques to choose from, so they have at least 1 decent coverage. A lot of Tems are only able to use Techniques from their own typing which feels a bit boring and predictable.
 

Piechu

Rookie
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
57
Unfortunately in Oceara's case aquatic whirlwind had to be removed, as it was dominating the metagame due to having this in its kit. And since hurrywart now grants turn 1 tsunami, taking hurrywart away would hurt the PvE grind.

Buffing things to Oceara levels doesn't fix the problem, you need to directly address the problem.
 

Mimicbox

Rookie
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
55
I agree that most temtem have really shallow move pools. Usually only one set of four techs or three techs with one spot that can have one of two moves is viable for competitive. (Personally, I thing most temtem should have their entire learnset reworked, but that's a topic for a different thread)

That said, Oceara needed to lose Aquatic Whirlwind. The strongest water tech in the game coming from the highest sp attack in the game on turn one because of Hurry-Wart was just too powerful.
 

splaashed

Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
62
I think that its part of the fun to have some things be op. That's what you measure strength with and build your teams around. And honestly i didnt even see Oceara that often in pvp tournaments or high level comp play so i dont think that it was a such big deal.

And as you said the strongest water tech >Paired< with the highest Sp Atk was a problem. So i think lowering the SpAtk by a bit wouldve made it so Oceara would at least still be good.


But overall i dont care too much about the nerf on Oceara but rather the lack of techniques for tems in general.. And its not even like there is too little techniques in the game. There is a lot of them but the tems just dont have access to them.
 

Aeon

Apprentice
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
214
IMO the real and only problem is Hurry Wart. Oceara doesn’t need Aquatic Whirlwind removed and it doesn’t need a spatk nerf, Hydrologist Oceara—which is still undertuned and would be even worse off with those changes—shows those are nonissues if Hurry Wart was fixed as suggested in this thread:

 

Rigaudon

Apprentice
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
109
I think that its part of the fun to have some things be op. That's what you measure strength with and build your teams around. And honestly i didnt even see Oceara that often in pvp tournaments or high level comp play so i dont think that it was a such big deal.

And as you said the strongest water tech >Paired< with the highest Sp Atk was a problem. So i think lowering the SpAtk by a bit wouldve made it so Oceara would at least still be good.


But overall i dont care too much about the nerf on Oceara but rather the lack of techniques for tems in general.. And its not even like there is too little techniques in the game. There is a lot of them but the tems just dont have access to them.
Oceara's time in the spotlight was called the "VOAT" meta. Vulffy, Oceara, Amphatyr, Tulcan. It is commonly considered one of the worst/most oppressive metas the PVP community has seen. This meta ended when Plague, Fiery Soul, and Oceara were nerfed. Oceara had previously seen a nerf before AWW's removal, but it was still dominant and limited team-building wiggle room.

Here are some quotes from people, some of which are very notable tournament/high TMR players:







I actually agree that this is a combination of problems and a lack of wanting to make diverse moves that consider specific tems in special circumstances is hurting options like Oceara. Making Oceara mostly non-viable in PVP again wasn't the answer. I don't mind it when a Tem has a unique identity, but the identity doesn't really "work out", as is the case with many non-meta tems (such as Piraniant). But I do dislike it when a tem can't be justified compared to another tem, such as Zenoreth vs. Valash. I have spent most of my time in this game finding unique, reliable, and useable niches for the more PVP-neglected tems but when a tem's role completely overlaps with another tem's role, you can't creatively justify using it. And that is the real problem with Oceara.

Because in Oceara's case, if you nerfed its special attack to where AWW was not overly dominant, then you have a water tem that hits sort of hard turn one but dies fast and has no stam. From another angle, if you remove hurrywart, we then get the temporary problem of PVE Oceara (used for leveling) being removed from the game and negatively affecting literally anyone who wants to level up in peace. Besides...Oceara is made out of paper, so swapping in to get the boost/waiting for a hold is rough; this was one of the main problems with using Oceara pre-hurrywart, and Aquatic Whirlwind's priority would offset the risk of swapping in one turn by nearly guaranteeing a really hard hit at priority next turn.

You can see there's a lot of issues, cohesively, with Oceara. I would go as far as saying Oceara's function in PVP as a whole presents a problem and the entire concept behind how it should function within the battle system is disfunctional. Either it ends up being underwhelming or it ends up being too dominant. It probably needs a rework as a whole concept. The symptoms of its design flaws don't present as badly as Taifu's, but it probably needs a Taifu-level redesign simply because the only healthy Oceara design already exists, and it's called Ukama.
 
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splaashed

Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2020
Messages
62
The Technique Variety overall is just too low and cutting the strongest move from a temtem that now has a 4th move slot syndrom is just a terrible way to keep balance in this game. I think the Variety of moves should be reworked and tems should have access to more moves in general.

Also if you think about it logically, it just doesn't make sense that a tem learned a move and then forgets it. To me it kinda feels like a scam in a way. I mean its not really a scam but i feel scammed by investing money and time into an Oceara previously when suddenly a move gets "stolen".
 

Piechu

Rookie
Joined
May 11, 2020
Messages
57
You can see there's a lot of issues, cohesively, with Oceara. I would go as far as saying Oceara's function in PVP as a whole presents a problem and the entire concept behind how it should function within the battle system is disfunctional. Either it ends up being underwhelming or it ends up being too dominant. It probably needs a rework as a whole concept. The symptoms of its design flaws don't present as badly as Taifu's, but it probably needs a Taifu-level redesign simply because the only healthy Oceara design already exists, and it's called Ukama.
Agreed with this part completely. Sums up the major balancing problems with the game.
 
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