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The legacy of Slingshot

Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
563
This thread is specifically about the Slingshot gear item.

0.6

The original effect granted +1 stage for DEF, SPDEF, and SPD after the holder delivers an attack that has *1/4 efficiency, otherwise known as double resisted. There's not a lot of consistent ways to get this effect to activate, especially when this item was introduced. The effect sounds good for a bulky set but dealing double resisted damage requires a specific target. Here's a list of those since Arbury's release:

Earth: 5 (Loali, Wiplump, Babawa, Saku, Tukai)
Electric: 6 (Amphatyr, Mudrid, Innki, Vulffy, Chimurian, Grumper)
Toxic: 4 (Mudrid, Tortenite, Cycrox, Akranox, Waspeen)
Fire: 3 (Drakash, Garyo, Vulcrane)
Water: 3 (Nidrasil, Platimous, Kalabyss)
Nature: 2 (Nidrasil, Hazrat)
Crystal: 2 (Drakash, Vulcrane)
Melee: 1 (Maoala)
Wind: 1 (Gazuma)


I may have missed some including a few Koish subspecies, but for the most part the two most prevalent quadruple resisted types coincides with Grumper, whose types are coincedentally two of the better offensive types for coverage. There's also equipping your Pigment Inverter Chromeon with Slingshot if you're into that sort of thing.

The old version of Slingshot had some potential strategically for putting yourself in a scenario where whether your opponent switches out from an imminent effective attack into a defensive pivot or stays to take the hit and possibly be down one tem. Either way you get something beneficial, though the outcome would probably favor not being able to do enough with the buff in the odd chance this scenario plays out rather than hitting something that only *1/2 resists the attack.

0.8

Arbury initially changed Slingshot in a significant way: the condition for activating the +1 DEF, +1 SPDEF, and +1 SPD buffs was changed from requiring double resisted damage (*1/4) to dealing less than 20% of the attack target's max health. This means any small chip damage attack, say for example Goolder's Novice Punch, would not only be able to gain +33% direct damage resistance but it was also stackable. Using this item leaves the holder vulnerable to doom which was also bolstered with Arbury by 5PPEH, but previously the Talisman gear item was improved to apply onto both the holder and the holder's ally. There's also much more prevalent access to Purgation, a technique which cures the doom status. A team could have one bulky tem using a low cost chip damage attack while that tem's ally only has to guard from doom status.

0.8.3

In a patch for Arbury the item was changed once again to become drastically different. The DEF and SPDEF buffs are completely removed and the activation condition was changed: from dealing less than 20% of the target's max health, to being based on whether the base power of the attack used by the holder is between 1 and 55. An additional restriction was added to Slingshot: it can't be activated when the holder's ally is the attack target. Presumably this is preventative from using Wake Up and similarly feeble techniques on the ally to stack up the effect, not that I expect +1 SPD to be of much use to a bulky set after the nerf to speed stat changes.

In the item's current state, the only practical use for this item I'd bother with anymore is on Aerobic Volarend using Wind Blade on turn 1 for low stamina consumption, +1 SPD from Aerobic activating, and another +1 SPD from this new version of Slingshot. This could also pair well with something holding Morale-boosting Whip to give your Volarend +1 SPD at the cost of 35% stamina. Using the damage calculator from tem.team for level 100 Volarend:

Start of turn 1: 17 stamina removed from Volarend (49 -> 32)
Turn 1: Volarend spends 9 stamina on Wind Blade (32 -> 23)
End of turn 1: Volarend restores 4 stamina (23 -> 27)
Turn 2: Volarend spends 34 stamina on Hyperkinetic Strike (27 -> 0, overexert)

The overexertion can be avoided with stamina investment but at this point I've changed my team composition to replace Aerobic Volarend with Granpah or Barnshe with Hypoxia. Bully Granpah's Hypoxia does close enough damage compared to +3 SPD Aerobic Volarend, not to mention Granpah could use Wind Burst instead for better stamina economy if I'm worried about overexertion or my opponent switching out.

What I want

This is how I would want the item to be changed to make me want to use it without it being too powerful. This is a full replacement for the current effects.

When the holder deals damage to an opponent Temtem that's super ineffective, the holder gains +1 ATK, DEF, SPATK, SPDEF, and SPD. Positive stat changes on the holder cannot exceed 1 stage.

There are two conditional restrictions: can't hit your own tem and it has to be double resisted. There's also the limit on how much stat changes the holder can stack to prevent this item from being stacked all the way to +5 for all stat changes. This limit also applies to other sources of stat buffs. Debuffs aren't limited by this effect.
 

Nightmare

Rookie
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Messages
8
ive not really found a decent us for it now ethier, i mean it was totally broken the previously three iterations.

it should be more like a slingshot and have some return to sender mechanic
some ideas
> when receiving damage return 20% back to the attacker
> when receiving negative conditions send them back to the attacker (activates only once per turn)
> when receiving negative stat changes send them back to the attacker

it best they stay away from more stat buffing items it either going be overpowered in the right comp or underpowered because of too many restrictions for balance.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
563
> when receiving negative stat changes send them back to the attacker
I like this idea. Reflecting status conditions might be too good since it'd be able to reflect doom, but if doom is specifically excluded it could be okay. Poison, burn, and sleep reflection would be mostly useless since their appliers are likely to be the type that's immune to it. Cold would very rarely be useful to reflect unless you coincedentally have something that can apply it or if your opponent is using Snowstorm Momo. That leaves exhausted, isolated, seized, and trapped.

Reflecting stat changes may be more useful with stat debuffs becoming more prevalent. A quick example is a bulky Parrier Mushook set using Tenderness on your opponent's field trying to stall your physical attacker.
 

TMTrainer

Game Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
1,405
Keep in mind the initial changes were partially for balance, partially due to bugs and interactions with other parts of the game. Reverting to 1/4th triggers (and the 20% trigger, for that matter) is not possible at this time.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
563
Keep in mind the initial changes were partially for balance, partially due to bugs and interactions with other parts of the game. Reverting to 1/4th triggers (and the 20% trigger, for that matter) is not possible at this time.
I didn't pay attention to the 0.8.3 notes to see that's the reason for the change.

  • This is a total rework to one of the most powerful gears that have been added to the game. Both the 1/4th of damage and the % damage triggers were causing issues and bugs, so we’ve opted for a new trigger that was aligned with the original intention for this gear, which is to proc with low damage. We’ve also nipped the DEF and SPDEF buffs in hopes that these pruned effects will lead to a gear that’s less OP and can be used interestingly but less oppressively.

If the trigger stays where it is now I'd still like to get more benefit than only +1 SPD, but it'd have to be very limited to get ATK/SPATK similar to the restriction I suggested. All we can do for now is speculate on how to make use of Slingshot in its current state since this item has changed so many times in such a short span of time.

Some techniques could be good with Slingshot's current trigger. Sharp Leaf has come to mind since there's no middle ground for physical nature attacks between Sharp Leaf and Frond Whip or Water Cutting Lily except for nature Koish and to a lesser degree Tyranak's 2 hold signature technique. I wouldn't bother using Slingshot if it only gives +1 SPD for anything I'd run Sharp Leaf on since they're all slow bulky tems that either don't benefit enough from being a little faster, or would have Water Cutting Lily to not care about +1 SPD.

There's also Double Gash on tems that get Wrenching Massage with Gyalis and Tutsu. Venmet gets Uppercut and is a little too slow to care about speed that much. Akranox's Sting could benefit from a little more speed but both Sting and Venom Spread are >>> priority, so speed isn't that much of an issue.

Hook on Osukai and Hedgine might be the best use alongside Aerobic Volarend. Osukai's not especially fast but a little more speed could put it ahead of a threat that thinks it's safe sitting on the field, only to get outsped with Dust Vortex on a Sensei Osukai set that isn't using Gravel Bag or Sensei Robe. Going Away Gift Hedgine could use Hook to get the same +1 ATK and +1 SPD, then intentionally get knocked out to pass those buffs to the surviving ally.

Loali, Taifu, and Broccolem could use Spores for a similar benefit to Osukai, just barely more speed to hit something first your opponent thinks will easily outspeed you. Plague would be a better use of your time for Loali and Broccolem but at least Taifu can use Hypoxia or Dust Vortex with slightly more speed.
 

way2blaster

Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
60
You forgot cold breeze users, and maoala/towly. Some time split users. Like it currently.

I personally think the item has a very misinforming name.
I would seggest it would give you +1 speed turn 1 its on the field and then - 1 speed each turn it is on the field when the tem is swapped out it loses all stat changes (same working as chamomile)

Or starts with - 1 speed and gets +1 speed each turn (recet when swapping out) (but this might be broken on gems like nagaise)

I feel it fits more with the name.
 

Qlaziks

Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
154
Slingshot is perfect as it is atm.
Volarend is super strong with it (I don't understand how you can think the opposite tbh), it's still an amazing item for hookers, and also some pjabers (mainly skunch).

Bringing back the item to a super situational 1/4 hit is a bad idea because it make the item very coinflippy (if your opponent don't have a 1/4 resistance your item is just useless)
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
563
I didn't think much about how good Slingshot could be in the first post.

You forgot cold breeze users, and maoala/towly. Some time split users.
Volarend is super strong with it (I don't understand how you can think the opposite tbh), it's still an amazing item for hookers, and also some pjabers (mainly skunch).

I don't have much practice with these sets or how one stage of speed could matter that much on them. If you and others doing these sort of sets thinks it's great, my complaints are probably a personal problem with not using the item to its potential.

I'll try these out. Probably not the Cold Breeze ones, but I'm curious how Maoala cares about gaining speed. Maybe a surprise Jinxed Whisper in the middle of the battle?
 

alexshi2015

Apprentice
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
130
idm the way it is currently (only giving SPD+). I pretty smart way to make aerobic vola still useable.
A separate gear could be added for the effects you mentioned.
 

Wolfguarde

Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
222
I was rather annoyed that it was changed from its original iteration, until I read about the bugs/issues being the motivator. If that's the case, why not change its purpose/niche entirely?

My suggestion: For every time the tem uses the same move in a row, it increases attack by X% (not a stage increase; more in line with what the Settling trait does). In return, the tem is locked into using that move until they're switched out, at which point the buff resets.
 
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