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Trading House - Feedback, hopes, fears and ideas

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YaW

Game Director
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
367
Hey tamers,

We're getting near to the point where we close the design for the Temtem trading house. Since the trading house is one of the most anticipated features, and while we've been reading some of your ideas over time, we wanted to do a last quick roundup of feedback to make sure we don't forget anything.

Some things to have in mind:
  • Sharing your feedback on this topic doesn't mean your ideas are going to get implemented into the game. You can be sure that we (I) will read your feedback though.
  • Restrict yourself at the topic of the thread, please. This is not the place to discuss other features or other ideas you might have (use this forum for that).
  • Explain your thoughts but please try to be concise.
 

TMTrainer

Game Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
3,121
There should be a low (1%) tax for the auction house.

There is a simple, proven reason why this should be implemented and be healthy, backed by more than a few studies from other games (mainly Runescape, a game with a massive economy, and WoW). Temtem, currently, does not have a consistent and persistent pansun sink that interacts with all forms of play, and a pansun sink implemented into the trading house would not only be the largest pansun sink you could hope to implement into the game, but it would be one of the least intrusive to exist and the easiest to implement.
 
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Arokh_Belmont

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Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
27
There should be a low (1%) tax for the auction house.

There is a simple, proven reason why this should be implemented and be healthy, backed by more than a few studies from other games (mainly Runescape, a game with a massive economy, and WoW). Temtem, currently, does not have a consistent and persistent pansun sink that interacts with all forms of play, and a pansun sink implemented into the trading house would not only be the largest pansun sink you could hope to implement into the game, but it would be one of the least intrusive one to exist and the easiest.

I very much agree with this for the reasons given. Aside from that I would like to have reasonable filter options to look for temtem with certain SV values or eggs which have both luma parents. There will be loads of offers for any temtem given so it is important that we will have enough options to narrow the search down to the results a specific player would like to see.
 

Seygish

Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
27
idea from @DazMaticx#2887 on the official discord

1. Untradable / Ultra Rare Items maybe ONCE per week or every 2 weeks / Month to keep it rare, but possible.
2. Add Filters to the auction house if possible or at least categorys
3. Let Tems evolve that have the feature "Evolving after trading" if you get it through the auction house (this should be harder to add so maybe screw it)
4. Please add not only a bid button, but also an instant buy button (like ebay has it done)
5. Maybe add a small transfer fee (economy)
 

Ealdora

Rookie
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
33
Hello, i have thought a lot about the Auction House on Temtem, and i think one of the best UIs we couls have its some like we had in Diablo 3. I think could be an easy UI for new players and a "clean one" in general. You have space to put the Lvl of the Temtem, each SV (like mín SV max, but i dont know if that would be a thing in game), trait etc. :D

unknown.png
 

IHateForums

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Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
5
Instead of a general exchange type format similar to the Steam marketplace I think it should be (as the name implies) an actual auction house. Basically players should be able to list their items/tems/cosmetics and customize things such as having an initial offer or not, the duration the listing will be up for, what the increment for pansuns will be as a minimum for each bid after (so people aren't just adding 1 pansun), you get the idea. I'm hoping that the taxes don't go crazy as there are already plenty of things to spend your money on in game as it is for a money sink, unless there's some purpose for the taxes like an interesting mechanic that feeds off it in some form (like an in game lottery) then I don't really see the point in it for a game like temtem other than to increase the amount of time players need to gather money. OSRS for example doesn't have any form of taxation on their G.E. and it works just fine.

The key for the auction house is going to be filtering options rather than the actual listings themselves I think however.
 

Stripclub

Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
183
please have undercutting and reposting in mind while designing the auction house. if its similar to wow´s and the ah is booming we´d have tons of people scanning the market, reposting and undercutting. thats probably the WORST part about wow´s auction house. my suggestion to prevent that kinda stuff: limit the amount of items users can post (use a daily limit).

how would that help?

-
we´d have less clutter on the auction house
- stops "moguls" and price fixing.
- keeps it fresh because there wouldnt be the same 500 lumas sitting there. people would actually have to think about their items and price them accordingly/competitive.
- WoW´s Auction house punishes traders with taxes, we dont need taxes if we are allowed to post only 10~ items.

Other Ideas

- filters for tems, lumas, fertility, rarity, min sv on each stat, tems caught by specific users (to find OT´s)

- buyout prices

- let us check the auctionhouse from anywhere in the world. as a trader myself i dont want to be forced to sit near an auction house just to scour the market. let us be able to bid from anywhere as well. im fine with going to an auction house to post and pick stuff up though! if we arent able to check from anywhere in the world it creates a (kinda) p2w scenario, people with 2 accounts could have a dedicated market alt that just sits there and gets deals that all other players arent able to get.

- it should be very clear and obvious if a tem has already been trained. tems can gain and lose a lot of value depending on their training. its hard labour to train them and even more labour to help the forget spreads. (wouldnt like to hover or click on every tem to see if they are trained)

- being able to inspect koish tails before buying would be great ?

- seller and bidder should be anonymous
 
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Tutpup

Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
24
1. Search function. Being able to search for the Tem you are looking for.
2. Filters. This would be nice in order to filter Egg or no Egg, SV's, maybe filter TV's on and off, traits, level, etc.
3. Buyout option. In every MMO I have played this is what 99% of the people use the auction house for.
4. Not limited to Tems. Being able to buy ETC's, furniture, etc, would be really nice. Especially seeing as people get these things from fishing.
5. Linked auction house. If multiple auction houses are implemented (one in Deniz, Kisiwa, etc) have them be linked. It would really suck to be forced to check each and every one for the best deal.
6. No "regulation". Aside from taking a cut and having a fee, don't regulate the auction house, let the players create the economy. At the end of the day Tems, items, etc, are going to land on a price that the playerbase feel is fair.
 

Pink G

Tamer
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
270
Hopes:
  • Ability to search/filter (like temporium)
    • Also include feature to search for "EGGS" only
  • Ability to submit more than 1 tem for sale at a time or period
    • Limit of tems (specifically more expensive, perfect or luma tems) per day
    • Such limit to not affect 'breeding stock' (e.g. having 30 tems after radar)
Fears:
  • Market manipulation by easier buying & reselling
Ideas:
  • In-game notification anywhere in-game when:
    • one of your tems/items has sold in the Trading House
    • an auction you previously bid on or you're 'watching' is about to close soon (thanks to Sharky for this suggestion)
 
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Silber

Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,371
A very annoying thing in WOW is that with every new expansion crafting materials are sold in very small batches or even single units and outside of various mods that automate purchases there is no way to buy up the quantities one needs without buying a lot of single trades.

When things like breeding stock hit the market, there is potential for this same issue. Want to buy X Temtem with a certain stat? Well, tough luck, you need to click them all individually and possibly refresh multiple times because others may have bought what you wanted to buy.

Likewise, there will be individuals looking to buy 100 Temtem and just mass-release for Freetem, and people looking to sell any old Temtem they caught for that same reason at a price that justifies the Temcard investment. For them, buying individual Temtem is an absolute nightmare.

Buying luma eggs? Wanna buy 20? Buying 10 chairs? Buying 10 dyes?

For such cases, perhaps the ability to bulk-buy up to X Items that satisfy a filter and have a price up to Y Pansuns would be a highly coveted feature. Of course, it is also understandable if such scenarios are intentionally unsupported to prevent people from just buying up Freetem, but I honestly think people will just do it anyway.
 

Heromax

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Feb 23, 2021
Messages
7
En general lo que buscamos los jugadores es facilitar la compra y venta o intercambio de temtems lo mas simple que se me ocurre es solo poner un post con el tem que ofreces a una cantidad de dinero que pidas que cualquier persona pueda buscar con un filtro que el filtro se pueda separar por nivel trait genero etc y que no se tenga la necesidad de estar conectado para hacer el intercambio no se si la idea de poner un precio máximo o un mínimo seria mala idea a la larga pero algo de lo que temo es que la gente nueva ponga los precios por el suelo lo que lleve a que todas las personas terminen bajando el precio con la esperanza de vender mas rápido su tem eso solo llevara a que todos los precios terminen en el suelo regular el precio podría ser una solución pero talvez esto lleve a que la gente no use la casa de comercio tambien pido que no haya un limite de post por persona eso limita demasiado el comercio.
 

Seygish

Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
27
For temtem filter, i feel the bare minimum is:

-gender
-fertility
-level
-for each stat, min or max number of sv/tv
- egg moves
-trait
-is luma

For eggs, maybe check for one or two luma parents? Idk.

add the type too
 

TMTrainer

Game Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
3,121
To break down precisely the sort of search functionality I think we'd need for a game like Temtem, I'll do my best to break it down here (I'm going to ignore items, because they're entirely static and should be rather easy to implement unless you start adding items with weird parameters):

1) The Temtem's species.

2a) Is Luma?

2b) Is Egg?
Is one/both of the parents luma?

3) SVs
Is this stat's SV greater than X?
Is this stat's SV less than X?
Is this stat's SV exactly X?
Is this stat's SV between X and Y?
'I don't care what this stat's SV is'

4) TVs
Is this stat's TVs greater than X?
Is this stat's TVs less than X?
Is this stat's TVs exactly X?
Is this stat's TVs between X and Y?
'I don't care what this stat's TVs is'

5) Egg moves
Does this Temtem have 1/2/3/4 egg moves (with optional toggle "or more", so '1 or more egg moves', '2 or more egg moves, ect)
Does this Temtem have [precise egg move we can choose via search bar]
'I don't care if the Temtem has egg moves'

6) Trait
Does this Temtem have this trait?
Does this Temtem have an unengineered trait?
'I don't care what trait this Temtem has'

7) Fertility
Does this Temtem have 0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 (with optional toggle "or more", so '1 or more fertility', '2 or more fertility', ect)
'I don't care how much fertility the Temtem has'

---

This is before other search parameters, such as being able to fine tune the cost you're looking for, "must be under 1,000,000 pansuns, must be over 2,000,000 pansuns, looking for stuff between 250,000 and 750,000 pansuns, ect".

---

The ability to set up a set time for each auction feels important. Let people choose the amount of time they want to post something, such as 24/48/72/168/730 (one month), so that they can have long-duration auctions for their Temtem.

Additionally, adding an optional buy out option for players, where people can skip the auction and instantly buy the Temtem upfront for a player-preset cost, is important.
 

Goldschuss

Tamer
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
265
I would like to see anti reselling mechanics.
The reason for this is, that reselling will always cause a massive inflation for the game where it's happening. I'm not sure how one would implement this, but this is something I think AH really needs.
 

Skar

Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Messages
177
Since a lot of people already talked about search features I'll tackle another point: how integrated the AH will be with the rest of the game?

Will we need to go there physically to post or retrieve stuff?
Will we be able to visualize the AH in any shape or form from outside of it?
Will we receive messages/alerts from transactions anywhere in the game? For example: I'm selling a luma and bids are being made, will I get alerts if I'm fishing at Nuru Lodge?
Will we be able to change things from outside the AH? Like, taking off something from selling, changing prices/amount, etc. Maybe you regret or realize you made a mistake and by the time you get to the AH it may be too late.

These are the points I could think of for now.
 

Aeon

Apprentice
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Messages
213
Allow buying/selling tradable items (furniture, cosmetics, dyes, etc) in addition to Tems.

A reasonable non-refundable list fee to keep people from listing the same overpriced thing that will sell once in a blue moon over and over or using the trading house as extra free temdeck slots.

A confirmation window with the price (including commas) in an easily visible font. Or at least the option for one, because AH misclicks happen all the time and buying a level 1 Skail for a million pansuns sucks.
 

dhamocles

Rookie
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
38
One of the main things id like to echo that definitely needs to be in place is a mandatory tax, on actions such as listing items/buying items/removing your bid from items and removing the item from the market iteself. %Tax is of paramount importance as it will not only serve as the main method of pansun sink but also from every mmo with a successful economy has a tax and it has proven to keep the market healthy along with a bunch of other reasons. I would even push for at least a 5%-8% tax on everything.

For the main tabs i would like to see something similar to what Spiral Knights has done, which are "Search", "My Bids" and "My Auctions", all tabs are self explanatory and allow player QOL accessibility to things they have listed right now and or bids they have active on a list. (Picture below)

I think generally most of the important points have already been mentioned by tamers above but few things id personally like to highlight is for the economy to be solely player driven, limited interaction from devs to 'fix' prices and etc.

Listings Items
- Limited to 10-25
- Time limit of 48 hours (1/6/12/24/48) all with varying listing prices , (more time = more expensive)
- Listings with a Current Offer / Buyout until time expires
- Listings with no Buyout but only current offers until time expires

Sorting
TMT has summed out the sort feature very extensively and i think that's a very good way to go about it, specific enough but not till it floods the GUI (not sure how to quote)

"To break down precisely the sort of search functionality I think we'd need for a game like Temtem, I'll do my best to break it down here (I'm going to ignore items, because they're entirely static and should be rather easy to implement unless you start adding items with weird parameters): "

Buying Items
When buying items there could potentially be a multitude of issues when purchasing items, especially if it automatically goes into your inventory; To counter-act this i propose reworking the VAULT feature as a substitute mailbox where players would be able to temporarily receive items from. As from my personal experience with spiral knights there were many issues initially when items would just appear into a players inventory. Leave a 48-72 Hour expiry limit as well as limited space in the vault on the items that are sent to the vault so people cant abuse that mechanic as a storage and that would be splendid,

players would then be able to
- Sort out boxes before receiving purchased items
- Not worry about a lack of space at all times
- Example: if someone bought 99 scents at a reduced price, they could clear out the current scents they had first instead of receiving 78 and the remaining being voided. This goes for many other items/lumas as well.
- One stop area for people to see where their items they have bought has gone to and not have to search in their provided storage boxes
(10 boxes is very claustrophobic)
- Not to mention.. Vaults will finally have a purpose ! :cool:

Personal Query
Also as someone who enjoys the thrill of flipping/making good sales/reselling items/manipulating and making money via the auction house, having a section that shows bids as they are listed live on the front page would be a definite +1 from me. I remember the days of sitting all night on the AH hitting the refresh key on the front page looking to make money that way and those were fond memories of a trader that with personal bias would like to see implemented. In a sense this feature and the entire AH itself would catering itself to another patch of the player base who aren't lumahunters/pvp players, the traders! and it would be nice for this game to be as open and accommodate the many unique play styles of individuals looking to pick up this game.

Image below shows front page of auction house followed by categories
Search / My Bids / My Auctions

unknown.png


Image Below shows Bid/Buyout Feature
unknown.png


Image below shows what the potentially REWORKED VAULT would look like receiving items from auction house

unknown.png
 
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shock

Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2020
Messages
110
Due to how individual each temtem is, i expect it to be impossible for the TH/AH to group entities. As such the AH/TH needs to be responsive/quick to use or it runs the risk of being a nightmare to use when doing any high volume transactions.

One thing not mentioned which may or may not be important is the ability to know when a temtem will evolve. While currently it only really matters due to the level cap, it could matter down the line due to different competitive formats.

As mentioned a few time, the ability to do alot of different types of searching is important
 

Blanque

Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
22
I will personally mainly talk from a breeder standpoint in this game and give feedback on methods or concerns I saw in other games that I liked/not liked and what I want to be implemented, if possible. As such, I divided the auction house into sections and I will give ideas and examples based on what I saw, used, or heard about. Once again, this is simply my opinion and I'm fully aware the decision is up to the devs. I feel like this disclaimer was needed, haha! ^^

Temtem Auction House Sections:
1. Space limitations
2. Tax %
3. Time
4. Search functions
5. Selling/Buying methods


Optionable: Cash Shop Bonuses, Seller Reviews

1. Space Limitations:
Ok, first is first, there was always controversy when it comes to how many items, at once, we're able to sell in the auction house. Many MMOs simply have a low amount of space locked, usually, under the paywall. A simple example of this is the Premium/Vip bonuses that we can buy for a monthly/weekly subscription which usually provide us with a lower tax and more space. We are already aware Crema stated they wanna avoid p2w as much as possible, which I think is a very good mindset, but at the same time, we know they face issues when it comes to the amount of storage they can provide us with. The auction space could be an intermediary solution for this problem since most of our items will be on the market and no longer stagnating inside the storage. If later on there's the option to add extra space via the battle pass or whatnot, then we should think we hit 2 birds with one stone: we get the extra space, while they get the funds to make that possible.
A question will be if the auction house will give us the options to sell bulk temtems? Like the ones, we need for breeding a perfect, the 50 SV temtems or freetem fodder. Those are some concerns I gathered from other people. I'm not sure exactly how the space problem works, this is why I don't wanna make unreasonable requests, maybe unlimited space is too much to ask for, since it may be impossible for all I know, but a reasonable amount should be provided. Not sure exactly what a good number may be, but I think between 10-100 or around there, should make any kind of trades possible. with the exception of bulk sales. Those will probably need more information if they are ever gonna be added.

2. Tax %:
I know taxation is important for the pansuns to sink in the trading category. While I understand the importance I don't understand in totality how it works and on what scale it influences the things, as such, I should not speak about things I do not know about. Some of us are already used to player-made auctions, where the seller participants are taxed with a commission, ranged usually from 10% to 5% per item, so if it is anywhere in that range I don't think it will be a problem.

3. Time:
The time context here is simply how long an item will be present at the auction. A basic format will be 1 day/3 days/1 week options as most games do, but in some instances, I saw them having the unlimited option. Simply having an item on the auction until it sells or the seller removes it. I won't mind bigger time periods, but in case those could cause any problems they could be limited by the number of items that can stay at x period of time. Ex: There's 5 spaces that you can use on unlimited time items.

4. Search functions:
As the previous people on this topic already stated, we do require a good search function for the auction house, a bit similar to what people are used with the trading hub in discord. We should have options dedicated to perfects, lumas, eggs, items with subcategories on those, if possible, and, of course, a searching option in general. People in discord are very used to mark the tems to symbolize if they have egg move, if they are fertless or not, even the trait of the eggs or perfects is marked by a symbol. I'm not sure if those marks are possible inside the trading house, but a tag option of some sort will be good to have. In case those are not possible I suggest an item description so we can say all the details related to the tem/item. I also wanna add that all items should have a preview option, from the temtems to the items like simple dyes.

5. Selling/Buying methods:
Selling and buying sound simple enough, but the players are used to 3 main methods for those: buy-outs, offers/negotiations, and of course the bidding on an auction.
Selling/buying should be 2 separate ways inside the auction house. The first one is the basic menu where you see the searched items and each of them provides you with the options to either directly buy the item for the price the seller is asking, or give them an offer which is usually a lower price. (Saw this in a popular MMORPG called TERA when I played a few years ago.) I'm not sure if a similar option, but offering a higher price will benefit since this could be potentially be abused using multiple accounts or used for RMT. (Ex: In metin2 a good way of RMT is making a shop with an insignificant item that has an absurd price. Those who bought in-game currency with real money used those kinds of methods to get their in-game money without being detected. This could also issue that we need some kind of taxation to avoid those kinds of trades) The second way is the auction-like mode. I'm gonna talk a bit about what I saw in a browser game called Howrse. As I stated in the beginning, those 2 ways of selling/buying are separate menus to simple make things clear and easy to find. How they handle it is you, firstly, need to reach several days to be able to participate in those kinds of trades, here, honestly, I don't think is necessary. We shouldn't be limited to use any kind of in-game parts, except for gameplay progression, where once you unlocked the house you should be able to use it at its full capacity. As for items that are inside the auction mode, everyone should be able to post items in it. From what I remember the items were sold in order, you, of course, could have bid on an item that's like 3 days away from being auctioned, but the option to bid was available on every item. It will have a minimum increment, for temtem we could use 100-1000 pansuns and the last who bids take it. I suggest the number of items that can be auctioned to be limited by the amount you can place at once and the time to be bid. As for the order they came for the bid should be in the order they were placed. Ex: I see 3 perfect temtems in the auction queue, I add 2 more items, then another player adds another one, then I add my last so the order is like this: first item is one of the previous existent 3 perfects, then my first 2 I added, then the second person, and last is the last item I listed. Long queues may be a problem, depending on how this will be handled, but space and time limit should ease the problem a bit.

Hope I made my ideas somehow easy to understand and I know it's a big wall text, my apologies for that. I also wanna add that whatever the final product will be, it will be a very important addition to us and I'm, personally, very excited about it!
 
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LaKnightress

Rookie
Joined
Dec 14, 2019
Messages
94
A very annoying thing in WOW is that with every new expansion crafting materials are sold in very small batches or even single units and outside of various mods that automate purchases there is no way to buy up the quantities one needs without buying a lot of single trades.

When things like breeding stock hit the market, there is potential for this same issue. Want to buy X Temtem with a certain stat? Well, tough luck, you need to click them all individually and possibly refresh multiple times because others may have bought what you wanted to buy.

Likewise, there will be individuals looking to buy 100 Temtem and just mass-release for Freetem, and people looking to sell any old Temtem they caught for that same reason at a price that justifies the Temcard investment. For them, buying individual Temtem is an absolute nightmare.

Buying luma eggs? Wanna buy 20? Buying 10 chairs? Buying 10 dyes?

For such cases, perhaps the ability to bulk-buy up to X Items that satisfy a filter and have a price up to Y Pansuns would be a highly coveted feature. Of course, it is also understandable if such scenarios are intentionally unsupported to prevent people from just buying up Freetem, but I honestly think people will just do it anyway.
I agreed that Tems and other items should have an option to be stackable, would make everything so much easier when looking for and creating auctions. I would also suggest adding filters to what and how things can stack, examples:
  • Temtem(s)
  • Level
  • Type
  • Trait slot
  • Gender
  • SV (Have option to select more then one)
  • Fert
  • Egg move
  • Luma
  • Other...
Also being able to stack by just one filter or by multiple filters gives the player more flexibility with what they can post.

Note: I may add a graphic later to better explain this
 
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